Pearl Chanda: Beauty and Brutality

After a string of recent successes, Pearl Chanda is gearing up for her return to the Almeida Theatre in Rebecca Frecknall’s summer revival of Sarah Kane’s Cleansed. Fresh off an incredibly brooding, restrained turn in Hedda to navigating trauma-induced paralysis in Arthur Miller’s Broken Glass at the Young Vic, Pearl gives us an unfiltered look into what it really takes to inhabit Kane's nightmarish world. Having described her time performing Sarah Kane's Crave at the Sheffield Crucible as like "going to war," she breaks down why the themes of the show resonate with her so deeply and why her work is more important than ever. Pearl also gives us an insight into her working relationship with Rebecca Frecknall and why the Almeida Theatre continues to draw in such a loyal audience.

In our new interview with Pearl Chanda, we hear her talk about taking on roles like Hedda Gabler as well as the likes of Mae in Cat on a Hot Tin Roof and Stephanie Rahn in Ink. Amidst her booming screen career in hit projects like I May Destroy You, See How They Run, and Mary & George, Pearl explains why she keeps returning to the wonderful and terrifying world of theatre. She tells us about her love for working with great actors and with great directors, experiences that still happens a lot in the theatre world. As she prepares to open Cleansed, she tells us about the excitement around tackling on a historically challenging piece that she hopes will still have the same potency as it did when the show first opened at the Royal Court Theatre.

Cleansed runs at Almeida Theatre on 21 July - 29 August.

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:10

Welcome to Up Close with Carlos, celebrating art, entertainment, and the human spirit. Hello Shandra, thank you so much for joining us today.

SPEAKER_01 0:30

Hi, thank you for asking me.

SPEAKER_00 0:32

I I've read that you've often said that you know one of the hardest jobs that you've ever done was Crave by Sarah Kane. So I was wondering what was it about Cleanse that made you want to return to her world and to take on this project?

SPEAKER_01 0:46

Well, Crave was the hardest job I've ever done, mainly because you have to be so present. It was like I felt like it was like going to war each night. That's how nervous I was every single time. Because you really didn't know how it was going to go. Um, there would there were some uh some shows where we would repeat four pages over and over again and not know how we were gonna come out of it, but that level of presence, which is very frightening, is also very liberating and very exciting and um helps you, I think, as an actor. So I sort of knew that uh Sarah Kane's work are sort of experiments in the very present, and that's always a very exciting challenge.

SPEAKER_00 1:47

Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I feel like Crave has, you know, an almost choral quality. There's so much linguistics in there, whereas cleansed is you know known for its physical brutality. Um, I was wondering how different are the two texts to inhabit as an actor.

SPEAKER_01 2:03

They're different. I mean, crave is, yeah, definitely a lot of words. They're similar though, and cleansed is also choral, it's just not as wordy. So it's an interesting um, it's an interesting uh uh piece to discover with the group because you uh her language does need attack, and because it's so sparse and cleansed, every word is very thought through. And that is very difficult when it's so lean, but it is also like it's kind of being a bit of a detective at the moment and trying lots of really bad versions of it, and um, and then suddenly you realize what is being said or meant or the rhythm. She's a brilliant writer.

SPEAKER_00 3:05

Yeah, I mean it's interesting, you know, underneath the brutality in this era Kane has always said that cleansed is fundamentally a play about love. Um, I was wondering, you know, how do you anchor yourself to that love amidst all of the violence?

SPEAKER_01 3:19

Uh well, she does it. I mean, you know, Daffodils shooting up from the ground after gunfire. She's constantly trying to do it. I I mean, I wasn't surprised by this, but I was I have honestly been very, very moved by the relationships in the piece and the depth of wanting love to exist within brutality, which is what the play sort of explores, you know. But it's a lot, it's a lot, the brutality is a lot, and it is in life, you know?

SPEAKER_00 4:01

Yeah, I mean, definitely. I mean, looking back, you know, Cleansed wasn't particularly well received when it was first premiered in 1998, but there seems to be a real hunger for Sarah Kane's work now in 2026. Um, what do you think has changed in society since then? And why do you think this piece is speaking to audiences today differently?

SPEAKER_01 4:20

Um, well, I don't think any of her work was well received, particularly, and I don't think that is like, you know, so I think Stuart said the other day, he said that someone said watching cleansed, you'll either engage with it or you'll reject it, but you'll learn a lot. And I don't think we live in a culture or a climate where that is given to us, you know. One, that you can go to the theatre and have a real kind of adverse effect, but for it to stay with you. I also think I think I find it interesting for now because I suppose as an actor, one of the I guess about 99, 98% of the scripts that I get given, but also probably 98% of the things that I consume live in a very, very naturalistic world. And I'm not sure personally that I live in that world 98% of the time. Internal life is far more abstract and strange and poetic and violent and odd. And it seems strange to me that that there's so little work that gets to explore that when I'm pretty sure that is the experience for lots of people. So, in a way, I I find I think it's relevant now because we get to experience something that I think happens with inside us, which is odder, um, which we don't normally get to.

SPEAKER_00 6:04

Yeah, I think that's a very interesting point. Um, you obviously also have a very deep um collaborative history with Rebecca Frecknell, you know, doing Julie and Three Sisters, House of Bernard Alba, and most recently Catherine Hot and Ruth. Um, how has your shorthand and working relationship evolved over these different projects?

SPEAKER_01 6:22

Uh yeah, I wouldn't I wouldn't be able to quantify that particularly. I mean, I I guess when you work with someone a lot, you understand their rhythms, you know, and you understand their process as well. I think I think I'm very attuned to what she's interested in within her work, and I think she is very attuned to what I'm interested within my work, and so that can that speaks to each other, you know, just naturally. Um, you know, but it's great. I love working with people again. So, you know, fun. And and Frex is such an amazing, I was gonna say leader, but she she kind of um she holds everyone, and and she, yeah, a leader, she leads us through it, and that feels very um fun to go on the journey with her each time anew.

SPEAKER_00 7:19

Yeah, for sure. Um, is there anything specific about um her approach to reviving classic and or challenging text that make you want to keep going back into a rehearsal room with her?

SPEAKER_01 7:30

I think it's the writing. I mean, I was really excited about Cleansed mainly because I've I thought it was very different from the work that she's done before, but actually being in the rehearsal room, I'm like, it's it's not actually massively different. The writing's so good. It's um its themes are so similar to uh Three Sisters, Summer in Smoke. It about about people really desperately uh trying to make contact. Um uh the pain of being in love, um, the beauty of being in love, you know, it's so it's so um similar. So I you know that's been a real kind of surprise for me. And um, and yeah, I mean I I I think these with these great plays, it's always exciting to watch how um a maker responds to them. And Frex has a very particular kind of style and aesthetic, which I always find really intriguing.

SPEAKER_00 8:42

Yeah, definitely, I totally agree with that. Um, this is also your fourth time returning to the Almeda theatre. Um, does it feel like a homecoming for you at this point too?

SPEAKER_01 8:53

Um, yeah, I will I love I love being I love the space, you know, and yeah, it was I think it was about a decade ago when I first did a play here, and um it was in the summer, it's lovely to return and do a summer play again. Um very nice memories, and that yeah, it's a very special, it's a special um house to play, you know, it's intimacy and um uh yeah, I love it. So it's lovely to be back.

SPEAKER_00 9:25

Yeah, absolutely. I mean you've performed in some of the most prestigious theatres, you know, Sheffield Crucible, the National Chichester. Um what would you say sort of makes the Almeda unique? And why do you think it has such a loyal audience?

SPEAKER_01 9:38

At the at the Almeda. Well, I think it's um uh programming is excellent. I think it's you know, they do what five plays a year, and they're always very different from each other. And you know, I mean, putting on cleanse, that's a that's a risk. And I think it's reputation for um uh yeah, taking risks and um and and putting on great work that makes people think and feel, and people seem to well, I think people like going to the Almida because they they like seeing different work and coming out and thinking about it and um and it's not always polished, but and and sometimes it is, but you know, those things is that that's great for audience audience goers.

SPEAKER_00 10:36

Yeah, absolutely. Um you've spoken in the past as well about you know growing up, you know, queue queuing for cheap theatre tickets, and in recent years, Western ticket prices have you know sort of skyrocketed. Um I was wondering, you know, do you worry about you know the theatre becoming less accessible and more of a playground for elites?

SPEAKER_01 10:55

Yes, I mean playground for elites, I just think the art form will get boring, you know. I just think it will because you're you can't um you can't really be radical or explore the new if you're just um aware of one demographic. Um, I also just think it's a real shame. I think like people, I think you know, now more than ever, theatre is live work is incredibly important um for society's mental health. You know, sitting in a room together and being told a story or experience something together in real time um is really good for us. And um I definitely know as a performer, the best audiences are the ones that are truly mixed, a truly mixed demographic. They're just much more engaged, and um and I think that's what you know we we need to be promoting. I mean, I think in fairness, I think theatres are actually working really, especially in the subsidized sector, working really hard to make that happen. But the government do need to do more in helping um this because it's really it's gonna it's gonna really um slow down or stop the uh process of really interesting artists developing, I think.

SPEAKER_00 12:25

Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I feel like um theatre already showcases a lot of you know working class um ordinary everyday stories, but um sometimes I wonder, you know, uh, is the conversation too focused on what's happening on stage rather than what's happened, you know, who was actually walking through the doors?

SPEAKER_01 12:42

Oh, what like starcasting?

SPEAKER_00 12:45

Um I mean starcasting is one thing, but I think also like um I feel like audiences are still generally made up of, you know, wealthier people. Yeah, right. So yeah, so maybe there isn't enough of a competition about having a mixed audience, as you say.

SPEAKER_01 13:01

Yeah, but that's I mean, this is it is ticket prices, you know. I mean it is basically you have to you have to make tickets cheaper, you have to have sections of seats that you hold back younger audiences for schools, for outreach programs, like that's you know, that's that's probably the way, but it's a hard job if you're if the government's not properly supporting that. Um, you know, it's expensive to make theatre. Um, but it is I really do think that it helps society as a whole. And I think the you know, the act of, you know, even if you are, you know, like oh you know, wealthy, middle-aged theatre lover, you're going to have a better time sitting in a theatre if you've got uh, you know, a young person who's never seen a play before, uh, or you know, like with people around you have different ideas and different responses, I think you will naturally engage more in the piece anyway. Um, you know, it's it's just natural, I think.

SPEAKER_00 14:15

Yeah, I agree. I mean, uh, I saw you playing Heather Garbler fairly recently as well at the Orange Tree, and uh I read that you first tackled a scene from Heather Garbler during your time at Bada. And um, I was wondering, you know, when you finally got to play her, did was the experience you know how you imagined it would be all those years ago?

SPEAKER_01 14:34

Yes, and no, I mean I went, it's really hard to lead a play, it's really hard, and um uh I'm really glad that I have, and I would definitely would again, but I um I generally have not done a play where there is such a lead character where the audience is looking at the play through that person's lens. I've done like you know, kind of I don't know, group pieces or um two-handers really, maybe even in a wider group. I mean, you know, broken glass, which I last did, was kind of like a three-hander. Um uh but HEDA really is it's HEDA, and it's called HEDA, and there's a lot on your shoulders doing that and leading the audience night after night through that. Um, but it was great, and I love her, you know. I I love that character, and I loved her at drama school. I think she's brilliant, really, and um so uh fascinating to play. Um, and also audience really don't know what to make of her, you know, and that's really fun.

SPEAKER_00 15:49

Yeah, I mean Heather Garbler is such a well-known player, such a well-known character as well at this point. Um was there anything that surprised you about Heather Garbler as well when you took on this role?

SPEAKER_01 15:59

I mean, everything really. I mean, it w everything about like I mean, our adaptation of it was we set it in the 50s, it was very kind of centered around an Anglo-Indian perspective. I think that really enhanced loads of the shame and the anger in her, which was really helpful and really felt really um fizzy. But I I suppose that I mean it just I think it's just the stamina of having to go towards someone's pain and rage and entrapment night after night. Um, I definitely it surprised me how sad I got. And I mean, I realized pretty quickly that I was like, oh, it's probably because I'm playing Hedda Garbler, but I do remember sitting on a train being like, oh, I feel really sad, and my life's great, but why do I feel so sad? You know, so she's the sort of character who really gets into your skin.

SPEAKER_00 17:03

Yeah, absolutely. I mean, it's interesting as well, reframing Heather Garbler as an actress as well. Um, I was supposed I was wondering, you know, being an actress yourself, was there much in Hedda's life which you could identify within your own, too?

SPEAKER_01 17:17

Yes, and I think that Anglo-Indian um uh that she was based on Merle O'Bron, um, the uh uh Hollywood actress who had to hide her South Asian, and you know, I've got a South Asian background, and I suppose I, you know, it brought up a lot for me. Um uh and the fact that it was an actress. I mean, I I think I remember getting sent it, the version going, oh well, I'm I think I'm gonna have to do this. This feels so kind of like perfect. But um uh yeah, you know, there there is something about um actors, you know, playing characters going around, playing different people and hiding within those people and exploring themselves within those people, you know, that's kind of interesting to me in regards to that version.

SPEAKER_00 18:16

Absolutely. Um, I suppose there's also a wonderful intimacy to the orange tree as well, and I guess the same with the Almeda, too. Uh, do you enjoy having that proximity to the audience and do you look out to see faces at all?

SPEAKER_01 18:30

I mean, the face is always there. I mean, the orange tree is very, very small, you know, you can really see everyone, and that is a challenge. You know, you have to be like pretty um focused, you know. The Almeida is slightly different just in its design, it's kind of set back slightly. But I love all, I mean, I think all spaces are lend themselves to grandness and intimacy. I mean, I think, you know, I liked the fact that Hedda was being done at the Orange Tree because I do feel we see these Chakov Ibsens in quite big spaces, and actually I think it's quite good to subvert that and bring them into smaller spaces like the Cherry Orchard being on at the Donmar and Hedda being on at the Orange Tree. So I feel, yeah, I kind of want to see all of these plays in lots of different theatres, you know. It's like I want to see some history plays and tiny spaces as well as the big ones, you know.

SPEAKER_00 19:33

Yeah, definitely. I suppose also, you know, when I saw Hedda, you know, seeing her being portrayed as a retired film star, it got me sort of thinking about, you know, Stephanie Ran, who you played in Inc. You know, navigating the media's gaze, and also I suppose May and Cat and Hotin Roof, you know, trying to keep up appearances in a way. Um, is that element of you know holding up a mask as a means of survival something that resonates with you in particular?

SPEAKER_01 19:56

Um, this is a really good point. I guess I am I mean I it resonates because I think people do that a lot. I think women do that a lot. And I I do find, you know, with May, for instance, in Cut on a Hot and Reef, especially, I just found I found her as much of a victim as anyone else in that household. And that kind of pretense and the kind of big smile, big southern smile, and trying to do everything right and having these really obnoxious kids and all of these things, but uh underneath she was just as you know, she was desperate and clinging on and incredibly insecure and incredibly lonely. And I really love trying to um always play those two things. I find it really interesting in parts and and doing it after night after night after night. I think that's the thing that I generally find keeps it fresh, the internal and the external debate that that person is having with themselves.

SPEAKER_00 21:06

Yeah, definitely. I feel like Cat on the Hot and Roof is another such a well-known play, um, especially from the 20th century, too. Um, do you feel like you know you is there much pressure on you to you know to play to audience expectations as to what the play is, or do you feel like you have a lot of freedom to create your own version of these characters and to tell the story in a fresh way?

SPEAKER_01 21:29

Yeah, I mean, I actually had I apart I had seen Header professionally, but I think everything that I've done, and I've done quite famous type you know, adaptation versions of plays, I haven't seen them. So for me, I was I always think the worst thing is going in to a play with an idea of the way someone had done it, which that's more scary than going, Well, the audience have seen this, or this is very

SPEAKER_00 22:00

famous so how do we because you know the story is a story um they're famous because normally the writing is really great is the the thing and so actually you're just showing you're just showing that you're just exploring that I think um I tend more and more I'm I'm I'm sort of less interested in thinking about the audience while I make anything uh yeah I suppose yeah um I suppose on the other side as well you know ink was very groundbreaking you know at the time when it was on you know it was a brand new play and about a very famous story as well I guess when you were very famous people uh involved um how did you begin to sort of you know tap into the role of Stephanie and you know what sorts what did you sort of take away from that experience too oh well she was she was a pretty amazing lady Stephanie Ron she was an actress who'd become a model she was mixed race first page three model um and it sort of ruined her um I met her she came to see Inc and she loved it she didn't think she I think I remember her saying she didn't think the men were nasty enough which I think was funny um that she thought that the actors had made all of the newsroom men too likable and I guess that's always the thing isn't it of like kind of you know you're straddling playwriting and real life in that you know James Graham does it so well so brilliantly um and he's so he's so clever I think at finding those bits of history that people think they know about but they don't really and then kind of putting it into this really entertaining and really fascinating um you know it always feels like a kind of fun ride but it always holds something pretty um nuanced and um thought provoking yeah he's good at humanizing people as well you know he's great at um yeah giving life and making them you know as you say almost likable as well you know whether that be oh yeah but I I did find that interesting that the you know the woman who was there doing it was like yeah they weren't like that they weren't as human he's humanized them too much you know it's kind of funny but you know it's it's also to do with the experience that the audience are having it would be horrible if you were sitting watching ink for three hours with really awful people all the time. Yeah I agree um it's interesting as well you know looking over your career you found you know a lot of success you know on screen in recent years you know see how they run war of the worlds uh Mary and George um what is it about the theatre that makes you still want to return to the stage I really love live art form I just think it's really great I think it's really beneficial and I think it's I've said this before but it's a it's the it's one of the oldest things we have as human beings is sitting around watching each other act out stories.

SPEAKER_01 25:14

So I really do feel like it's so integral within us. But I really do have like I love great writing I love great actors I love parts that interest me and I love a good director. So the medium really is like it's not it's not necessarily the medium that is drawing me towards the project I suppose I feel that you are more likely to have all of those four things in place than you are in TV and film that's mainly because of the amount of contents that that's made but I like there is some TV that I love there's some films that I adore you know so I guess that's the that's the challenge is kind of going where are the scripts and where are the parts and and also you know really getting to work with really great actors is so fun and makes you better and is like the joy it's like my my deep pleasure is acting with great actors.

SPEAKER_00 26:23

Yeah absolutely um I mean you've worked on some really um incredible pieces you know as you mentioned um you know Cat on the hot in roof ink three sisters um how do you sort of like find closure you know after doing your sort of heavy pieces yeah that's a really good question I they're different to be honest they're not they're never the same I finished Broken Glass which I loved doing uh in April and I knew that I was going to do cleansed I had about six weeks in between and I sort of like gave myself like two weeks I'll I was like okay I'll give myself like two weeks off and then I'll start thinking about cleansed and Sylvia who I was playing in broken glass she just didn't want to leave so I had to just wait a little bit longer you know like I was like okay well okay I'll wait three weeks and then it was four weeks and then suddenly I was like oh yeah no I'm ready to do cleanse now I just felt I had I had space within me to concentrate on this new person this new work so I mean it sounds pretty woo-woo but it is a little bit it's kind it does feel sort of spiritual to me you know some things take longer headache took a long time but there have been other things that I've done where I actually cannot two days later going yeah all right okay done you know yeah it's interesting um I guess yeah coming back to cleanse then um you know if Sarah Kane was still around today is there anything that you would want to ask her or say to her at all oh so much right now I'd be like what does it all mean um I I would say one of the things I remember this on 448 and Crave actually and I said this to the group I've never really worked where I've wanted to please the writer who isn't there so much.

SPEAKER_01 28:18

So everything I do or was doing in those plays you go oh I hope Sarah would have loved this or would she have liked it or would she have gone no that's not what I meant at all or stop fucking it up or you know like I wonder what she says and I and I think you have to get I'll have to get to a point where I go I don't give a shit about what you think Sarah you know like it's kind of she's very very present and you really want to please her um and that that feels very unusual for me. I don't feel like that when I'm doing a Chekhov I just don't think I ever went into my head oh I wonder if Chekhov really liked the bit that I'm doing with the lamp here and I really do feel like that about Sarah Kane.

SPEAKER_00 29:08

Yeah she's she writes some really powerful stuff um and interesting there's a lot of like silences you know in her text as well so like how do you sort of incorporate that into like the rhythm and the beats of the show yeah I think you I think that's what we're we're finding and I think it'll change actually I think what I what I imagine is that it because it's so present it'll be different and a silence one might might mean silence or it might mean a little thing you know who knows you know that's up for grabs um but the the rhythm is important I mean I think you can hear it you can hear when it's not working um but of course you you can't just do the rhythm so you know it's your it's a balancing act but we're all still finding it it's very exciting really fun to make yeah I'm intrigued to see how it all turns out um so are we yeah um I guess just as the last question then um yeah what do you hope audiences take away with them when they come and see cleansed um I really don't mind I really don't mind what they take away I want them to come to experience something truly radical and truly unique but what they come out of it really is up to them because it's an abstract form and that means that they are doing quite a lot of work themselves to work out what the story is for them.

SPEAKER_01 30:45

So it will be personal to them so I'm not I'm I don't think it's really any of my business what I think they should get out of it but I think they should see it you know because I just don't think it gets done it doesn't get done at all really in this country her work doesn't get done loads and they really are unique exceptional and unlike anything else and not copying anything and I just think in this day and age that is like rare and uh but also great privilege that people get to see it and um and maybe not respond to it maybe abhor it and that's also okay but I I think it's worth seeing just for the experience of whether they do or not you know yeah absolutely I feel like it's something that you that can also only work on stage as well I think it would be quite jarring if they made a film or TV adaptation to yeah she did say she was like it's it's a play it can't be made into anything else it can't it couldn't be a novel it couldn't be a film and you know look I mean I understand why but the amount of adaptations that we have of films or um books on on stages you know um this is a play you know you're going to see a play and it's uh and it's a weird play but it's a play you know it's not going to be anything else yeah it's very exciting uh pal Shander thank you so much for talking to us today so much it's been a pleasure